Interview with David Lipson, ABC

David Lipson, Host: The Foreign Minister Penny Wong joins me now. Thank you for your time.

Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good morning, good to be with you.

Lipson: What is the latest information you have about Oscar Jenkins?

Foreign Minister: Well, first I want to be very clear, we do hold grave concerns for Mr Jenkins' welfare. I will make it also clear that we are making urgent enquiries following the reports of his death. These reports have not yet been verified, but as I started, we hold grave concerns for his welfare.

Lipson: What contact have you and your department had with Russia about this?

Foreign Minister: Well, there have been a number of discussions with the Russian Ambassador to Australia seeking information about Mr Jenkins' whereabouts. We have also engaged with the Ukrainian, not only the Ambassador, but we have reached out to the Ukrainian Government. David, I'm sorry, I'm hearing an echo of myself, it would be really good if that could be resolved.

Lipson: We'll work on that, Minister as quickly as possible.

Foreign Minister: Thank you.

Lipson: Is there any reason to doubt the reports that Oscar Jenkins has been killed?

Foreign Minister: Look, as is always the case, when it comes to consular matters, obviously we need to verify reports before we either make, you know, decisions or public comments in relation to those facts. We do need to ascertain the facts, and we're working very hard to do that.

My thoughts are with Mr Jenkins' family. They've lived with the fear and uncertainty of a loved one in the middle of a foreign war for many months. I know these reports will be devastating to them, and they are in my thoughts, and I'm sure the thoughts of many Australians.

Lipson: Have you actually called in the Russian Ambassador for a meeting at the Department of Foreign Affairs?

Foreign Minister: Yes. The Russian Ambassador has been called in, including at my direction earlier this week in relation to Mr Jenkins.

Lipson: And how would the Government view an extrajudicial execution of an Australian citizen, if that was shown to be true?

Foreign Minister: Well I make two comments about this, first Russia is obliged to treat all prisoners of war in accordance with international humanitarian law. This includes humane treatment and the right to a fair trial, so that is their obligation. We will look at the facts when they have been ascertained, but I want to be clear all options are on the table.

Lipson: Do those options include expelling the Ambassador and recalling Australia's Ambassador in Russia?

Foreign Minister: Well, all options are on the table. I need, you know, as the Foreign Minister, to identify and ascertain the facts beforehand. Obviously, this does not occur in the context of a relationship that has been an easy relationship; this has been a very difficult relationship for many years, including the downing of MH17 in 2014 as well as the illegal and immoral invasion of Ukraine.

We have maintained, Australia has maintained diplomatic relations with Russia through that period under different governments. However, we will consider all options once we have ascertained the facts and once we can verify what has actually occurred here with Mr Jenkins.

Lipson: This week you said you were honoured to have been invited to Donald Trump's inauguration. In 2021 you said Trump was prepared to quote "trash alliances and partnerships for personal political interests". Has Donald Trump changed or has your view of him changed?

Foreign Minister: Donald Trump has been elected President of the United States, and I am honoured on behalf of the country to have been invited to his inauguration. I mean, I think people know that, you know, I will always stand up for alliances and partnerships, that is who we are as Australians. We believe in partnership, alliance and democracy, and it is a great honour to be invited to the inauguration.

Lipson: You're confident Labor can work with Donald Trump?

Foreign Minister: Look, I am absolutely confident we can navigate this relationship with the United States as we have navigated the relationship with the United States and others through the time we've been in government. And what I'd say is, I know, I heard Mr Dutton on this program a few days ago, I think what Australians know is he always wants to have a fight. Well, this is not about picking fights, this is about making sure we have a strong relationship with our most important ally, the United States.

Lipson: Finally on Israel-Gaza, it feels like we may be close to a ceasefire. Are you confident of that?

Foreign Minister: I am obviously hopeful, this has been talked about for some time. I would say that President-elect Trump has been very clear in his language about his expectation that this deal must be done. I saw what Secretary Blinken had to say and I know this is something that the outgoing Biden Administration has been working on for months.

So we have both the outgoing administration and the very clear language and engagement from the incoming Trump Administration, and I think all of us are hopeful that we can see the ceasefire that we have been advocating for, and so many around the world have sought for so long.

Lipson: And do you believe a National Cabinet here in Australia is necessary on antisemitism?

Foreign Minister: A couple of comments on antisemitism. I think Jillian Segal is absolutely right to again make the point that this is not just an issue for the Jewish community, this is an attack on all of us, and it is an attack on who we are. This sort of prejudice and hateful actions and criminal behaviour that we are seeing is an attack on Australia, it's an attack on Australian values and on the fabric of our society, and we ought to respond accordingly.

Now, this requires, as she said, the discussions between governments, and it was very pleasing yesterday that we saw the Prime Minister engaging with the two Premiers of the two states where we've seen the most egregious action. But we also need consistency from law enforcement authorities. Certainly we're doing what we are able to do at the federal level in terms of the AFP taskforce. We do have to respond unequivocally for Jewish Australians, and more broadly for the Australian community, because this goes to who we are and our values.

Lipson: Senator Penny Wong, thanks for being with us.

Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you.

Lipson: That's the Foreign Minister, Penny Wong.