Television interview, ABC 7.30 with Sarah Ferguson

Sarah Ferguson, host: Foreign Minister Penny Wong joins me now. Penny Wong, welcome to 7.30.

Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good to be with you, Sarah.

Ferguson: Is it possible this is just the beginning of Donald Trump's tariff war? Could there be other much bigger sectors at risk?

Foreign Minister: Well, first, on the tariffs, as you would have heard, both the Prime Minister and I say, you know that we believe this is an unjustified decision. We don't believe this is the way a friend ought treat us. We think tariffs are harmful to the American economy and we don't believe they're justified. You've heard us say that for some time. I also heard some of the introduction, which really goes to your question, which is, what do we anticipate from the Trump Administration. You would have heard from me over the last period that President Trump has said he will do things differently. We shouldn't be surprised if he does. And he is. You would have heard me say that President Trump and this Administration envisages a very different role for America in the world. And it does. And we will deal with that with focus, with discipline and calmly. And what we won't do is what Mr Dutton has done. What we again confirmed today, Sarah, about Mr Dutton, whenever Australia faces a challenge, he sees a political opportunity. Wherever he's got a chance to back Australia, instead, he goes for the political attack. Today we saw Peter Dutton's recklessness yet again confirmed.

Ferguson: Is it your view that the tariffs on aluminium and steel are now completely a done deal, or is there more negotiation to come?

Foreign Minister: Well, there's always more advocacy. There's always more negotiation and putting of the Australian case. That is what we will continue to do. That's what we have been doing. But I would say this. We heard Peter Navarro in the lead up to this decision and in the context of this decision saying a number of things, and a very important thing he said was that the Trump Administration made a mistake in its first term in giving exemptions and that those exemptions did not work. So, we know exemptions were gained by a number of countries in the first term. And the lesson that senior members of the Trump Administration have taken from that time is that that was a mistake. So, it gives you a bit of a sense of why I said some time ago that we had a harder hill to climb on this occasion.

Ferguson: Is that why the Prime Minister chose not to call President Trump in recent weeks? We know he had a call about the tariffs when they were announced, but is that why he chose not to make the call or was it that he couldn't get the President on the phone?

Foreign Minister: Well, let's get real about phone calls. There have been two phone calls. There has been a phone call that the Prime Minister had to congratulate President Trump. And there was a phone call in recent times where the Prime Minister and the President had a lengthy discussion about these issues. And you heard the Prime Minister explain to the Australian people that he put Australia's case to the President. He made clear that America has a trade surplus with Australia. He put the case for our exemptions in the narrow and more broadly, and the President said he would consider that. So, obviously we had the opportunity to put that to him. A further phone call has been requested and we will continue advocacy, both at the Prime Minister, but also at the official level where there has been really an unprecedented amount of work done in Washington on this.

Ferguson: Now, the Prime Minister in the previous phone call, brought up Australia's supply of critical minerals. Have they been part of the negotiations over recent days and weeks?

Foreign Minister: Well, President Trump's Administration has talked about the importance of critical minerals, talked about the strategic significance of that sector, and has talked about the importance of America gaining more secure domestic supply arrangements and changes to the global market on that. Now, Australia obviously is a country where we are blessed with many critical minerals. You would anticipate being as disciplined and as focused as we are, of course we listen to those signals. I'm not going to go through on national media the step by steps of negotiations, Sarah. But you would anticipate that, of course, we looked at all the, all those things that the Trump Administration had indicated were of value.

Ferguson: Now, can you imagine a scenario where Australia faced an existential military threat and the US President wanted us to sign over our mineral wealth to guarantee or as a precondition for military support?

Foreign Minister: I'm not going to get into a hypothetical scenario like that. And I understand that you're referencing the discussion in relation to Ukraine. But I think it's very important at this stage that we are both realistic, but also calm and cool headed about how we deal with a very different US Administration who remains our ally and our principal strategic partner.

Ferguson: I guess that is the question, that Donald Trump's behaviour is no longer hypothetical. It's a fact. So, do you need a new form of diplomacy to deal with an ally behaving in this way?

Foreign Minister: Well, I did listen to some of the comments in the lead up and I'd make a point, I'd make a few points. The first is, we said, I said, before we were elected and after we were elected, I talked about the very, very different strategic circumstances Australia faced and I talked about the importance of the region, of relationships and rules. And that is what we have been doing for the last three years. It's recognising we do, as a country, have to work harder to assure our stability in the region and in the world. We have to work harder using, as I have described it, all elements of national power, strategic power, military power, diplomatic power, economic power and so forth. And if you look at what this Government has done over the last three years, that is precisely what we have been focusing on. That includes our alliance with the United States, but it includes our relationships in our region within Asia, within the Indo-Pacific, but also in the Pacific, which was so neglected under the previous government.

Ferguson: I want to ask you about the ceasefire that Ukraine has agreed to. Now, I'm thinking about Trump's reversal of the cut-off of aid and military intelligence. Do you now see that as the, I'm sorry, the ambush in the White House as a means of forcing Ukraine to this ceasefire, a tactical move?

Foreign Minister: Well, I don't think it's helpful for Australia for the Foreign Minister to be to be drawn into that sort of commentary. I want to make two key points. The first is, we continue to support Ukraine. And why do we do that? Because this war, illegal and immoral war, by Russia, a permanent member of the Security Council, is a breach of the UN charter which protects us all, the principle around territorial integrity and sovereignty. Secondly, in relation to a ceasefire, I have read President Zelenskyy and the Ukrainian leadership's indication that they would accept a 30-day ceasefire. The pressure is now on Russia to do the same. We continue to advocate, alongside so many others in the international community and in Europe for a just and enduring peace, a fair result for Ukraine.

Ferguson: And just briefly, the Russian government representative in Australia has threatened serious consequences for Australia if our troops were to join a peacekeeping force in Ukraine. Why is it in our interests to send troops to such a volatile conflict?

Foreign Minister: Well, first, in relation to that assertion, I don't think Australians respond very well to that kind of bullying behaviour from anybody, and certainly not from Russia. The second point I would make is what the Prime Minister has said is we would consider any request and that is the sensible thing to do. The reasons are as I have outlined, we have an interest in the UN Charter not being undermined by a permanent member of the Security Council. These are rules which keep us all safe, and we have to continue to work to defend them.

Ferguson: Penny Wong, thank you very much indeed for joining us.

Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you, Sarah.