Television interview, ABC 7.30

Sarah Ferguson, Host: Penny Wong, welcome to 7.30.

Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: It's good to be with you, Sarah.

Ferguson: You've just come from Ukraine, where you've announced the reopening of the Australian Embassy in Kyiv. Why did it take so long?

Foreign Minister: Can I first say how humbling it was to be in Kyiv, Sarah. This is a nation at war, a people at war, who show enormous courage, enormous determination, but it is hard. It is a hard, grinding war with a lot of loss of life. It's really hard on the economy and really hard on the nation. So it was really a privilege to be there.

In terms of the embassy, I said when we came to government - obviously it had to be closed by the Morrison Government as a consequence of the war - I said we would look to reopen when it was safe to do so, and that's what we have done. And we've worked, been working to assure that security. And I was really privileged to be able to go on behalf of the country to announce its opening in Kyiv, which is what I committed to the Foreign Minister of Ukraine.

Ferguson: There has been discussion about the possibility of Australian troops being deployed to Ukraine in the event of there being a peacekeeping mission, if there is peace achieved between Ukraine and Russia. Have you had discussions about what that would look like?

Foreign Minister: Look the focus in Ukraine, the focus in Europe, the focus when I spoke to the EU High Representative, and also the Secretary General of NATO, the focus is on now, working with Ukraine to ensure this war can end on terms acceptable to Ukraine, on Ukraine's own terms. So those are discussions and commentary about what might occur down the track, but the focus at this stage is working with Ukraine to ensure it can end the war on its terms.

Ferguson: Let me move to the Middle East. I want to ask you how you would characterise the tone and nature of your recent conversation with the Israeli Foreign Minister?

Foreign Minister: Well, Sarah, there's, there's a lot of commentary out there about this. I'm not going to add to that. What I will tell you is that my message, in that call, is the same message that I have articulated publicly throughout these last months. Australia calls for a ceasefire. We call for the immediate release of all hostages. We call for life saving aid to be delivered. And we call for international law to be observed. Now I appreciate that Israel would like Australia to have a different position, particularly in international fora. What I would say is that Australia's position represents the position of the majority of the international community, including the United Kingdom, including Canada, including New Zealand, including France, Germany, Japan, and many more.

Ferguson: Clearly the Israeli side of that conversation has been given to the media. Were you rebuked in the heated way that's being described, for abandoning the Jewish state?

Foreign Minister: Well, again, I'm not going to add to political commentary about this. I don't think that someone in my position should do that. What I would say is that, if there's a suggestion about abandonment, I again, go back to what I've said, the position Australia has articulated represents the mainstream position of the majority of the international community.

Ferguson: What was Mr Sa'ar most angry about? Was it your calls for more aid to flow to Gaza, or the Government's votes in the UN calling for an immediate, unconditional ceasefire, as well as an end to Israel's presence in the Occupied Territories?

Foreign Minister: This is the third time you've asked that, Sarah, and I respect your right to ask it again, but I'm not going to, as Australia's Foreign Minister, add to the sort of commentary that you are referencing. I will say what our position is. I've articulated that. That was the position that I articulated to not only Minister Sa'ar, but to the previous Foreign Minister and publicly. Our position is consistent, and it is the position of the majority of the international community.

Ferguson: Now, of course, the issue of Israel impeding the delivery of humanitarian aid to Gaza is a very hot topic, considering, of course, the war crimes indictment against the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for allegedly using starvation as a tool of war. You've said before that Australia would follow the legal process of war crimes allegations. Were they to unfold further. Does that mean that you think there is a basis for that prosecution to proceed?

Foreign Minister: Actually, what I have said is that we respect the independence of international tribunals. And we respect the independence of the International Criminal Court, the International Court of Justice. We respect the independent position of the arbitral tribunal which made determinations under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. So, the position I've articulated is a consistent one. As a middle power, we have a great interest in a world where law is observed. You asked me to go to a whole range of matters which are rightly matters for international tribunals. Our job, as a country that can't move the dial by itself, on the Middle East, is to add our voice to the voices of others. Ceasefire, calling for ceasefire, hostages to be released, aid to be delivered, and for international law to be observed.

Ferguson: Now, since the collapse of the Assad regime in Syria, and, of course, the defeat of Hizballah, Mr Netanyahu has emerged as probably the most powerful figure in the Middle East. Is Australia at all concerned about how he uses that power?

Foreign Minister: Well, I think with what we have seen in the Middle East, and, you know, the fall of the Assad regime, the conflict with Hamas and the conflict with Hizballah, we have seen Iran in a much less strong position. I think that is a good thing, long term, for the stability of the Middle East. And what we hope, is that regional powers, the new Trump Administration, can work to fashion stability and peace in a region that has seen so much conflict and so much loss of life, including so many children who have been killed.

Ferguson: And just to come back to the position that the Australian Government has taken on those UN votes that I outlined before. How much of the Government's tougher stance on Israel is influenced by angry Muslim voters in marginal seats, who could do you serious political damage at the coming election?

Foreign Minister: Well, I think if you see, I've been criticised, the government's being criticised from all sides in this debate. And I came to the view very early, Sarah, that the most important thing here was to try and take as consistent and principled a position as we could, and that we would look at votes and our public positions on the basis of a set of principles. I've outlined them to you, and that's the approach that we have taken. Now, I would say to you that there are those who wish to bring, who see political benefit in bringing the conflict to Australia. You see that with Mr Dutton, you see that with the Greens political party. That is not the approach the Government is taking.

Ferguson: Penny Wong, thank you very much indeed for joining us just fresh out of your trip to Ukraine. Thank you.

Foreign Minister: It's good to be with you, Sarah, thank you for the opportunity.