Interview with Steve Cannane, RN Breakfast

Steve Cannane: Australia has joined other western nations in slapping new sanctions on Iran in the wake of reports that that country is supplying Russia with ballistic missiles for its war against Ukraine.

The Federal Government has targeted another five Iranians with financial sanctions and travel bans. It comes as the US, the UK, Germany and France have imposed sanctions targeting Iran's aviation sector, including against its national airline, Iran Air.

The measures coincide with the anniversary of the death of human rights activist, Mahsa Amini who died two years ago after she was arrested and beaten for not wearing a hijab properly.

Australia's Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, joins us now from our Parliament House studio. Senator Wong, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.

Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good morning, Steve, good to be with you.

Cannane: Before we get to sanctions against Iran, let's talk about a very distressing news that's just emerged out of the US. We've just heard the FBI say that they are investigating what appears to be an attempted assassination on former President Donald Trump at a golf course in Florida. What is your reaction to that news?

Foreign Minister: Well, first, I'm relieved that President Trump and others were not injured in this, and you know, obviously very pleased that law enforcement was able to deal with the situation, but what I would say is, you know, political violence has no place in any society, certainly has no place in a democracy, and this is, you know, this is a very – this is another, you know, dreadful demonstration of the potential of political violence.

Cannane: Let's talk about these sanctions that are being imposed on Iran. Some of them – the previous ones were imposed a year after Mahsa Amini's death. Why is Australia bringing in these new measures?

Foreign Minister: Well, as you said in your introduction, today is the second anniversary of the death of Mahsa Jina Amini, and just to recall, she was a young Iranian Kurdish woman who sustained injuries in police custody after being arrested for so-called improperly wearing her hijab, and you know, her death sparked massive protests across Iran, and unfortunately since that day, two years ago, we've seen a continued increase in the Iranian regimes repression of its people, we've seen human rights violations, we've seen arrests, we've seen executions.

So, you know, it is important for us to mark this day. We've sanctioned five Iranian security and law enforcement officials who have been involved in these law enforcement so-called "activities", which are ultimately a repression, a violent repression of the Iranian people, and this means we now sanctioned almost 200, about 195, Iran-linked individuals and entities across multiple sanctions frameworks.

Cannane: The US, the UK, France and Germany also announced new sanctions last week against Iran accusing Tehran of sending ballistic missiles to Russia. Do you support those sanctions, and do you share those concerns about ballistic missiles being imported to Russia from Iran?

Foreign Minister: Of course. And what this demonstrates is the extent to which the Iranian regime is a destabilising and repressive force. It demonstrates its willingness to ferment conflict elsewhere in the world; we know the destabilising role it has in the region.

This enabling of President Putin's illegal and immoral invasion of Ukraine is again not only a violation of International Law, but it is – flies in the face of Ukrainian sovereignty and International Law.

Cannane: We've seen, following the importation of these missiles from Iran to Russia, further talks between the UK Prime Minister, Sir Keir Starmer, and US President Joe Biden about whether they should allow Ukraine to use British and French‑made long-range missiles to target military sites deeper into Russia. Does Australia support that proposal?

Foreign Minister: Look, NATO, including obviously the US and the UK, has been balancing a very difficult set of propositions throughout this conflict, and they include, we all have to stand with Ukraine and their fight for their sovereignty. I mean this is a breach of the UN Charter and no country is safe if the international community enables in any way that breach of the UN Charter.

Equally, NATO is balancing, you know, how to avert further escalation in Europe. They are hard decisions, and I know from my conversations with both the US and the United Kingdom, they are considering very closely these sorts of, you know, issues; how do you support sovereignty, but at the same time not escalate and, you know, I recognise the work they are doing to try and strike that balance.

Cannane: President Putin said such a move would represent NATO's direct participation in the Ukraine War and has warned against such a move. Putin has had a few so-called red lines that have been crossed already over the past two and a half years. How seriously should that threat be taken?

Foreign Minister: Well, that's a judgment people have to make. I would note that he has also, you know, flagged, as you said, the use of small-scale nuclear weapons, he's drawn many red lines, he certainly is prone to talking very tough, but these are big and serious issues for the United States and the United Kingdom and for NATO, and I'm sure they are working – well, I know they're working through them very carefully.

Cannane: On Radio National Breakfast. It's 17 minutes to 8 o'clock, and we're talking to Penny Wong, Australia's Foreign Minister.

Minister, Simon Birmingham, the Opposition spokesperson for Foreign Affairs, when he was last on this program, said if the Coalition was to win Government it would reopen Australia's Embassy in Kyiv. He said around 70 countries have already done that. Why hasn't Australia re-opened its Embassy there?

Foreign Minister: Well, Steve, I saw that – or heard that interview. I mean we have always said that we would reopen the Embassy when it's safe to do so. You know, I recognise the symbolism of re-opening the Embassy, but the safety of Australians is of paramount importance, and you know yourself as somebody who follows this very carefully, that we've seen some very heavy attacks on Kyiv in recent times.

I'm certainly not interested in letting politics compromise officials' considerations of workplace health and safety assessments, and it's disappointing that this is being used for political purposes, frankly.

Cannane: Do you think he's using it for political purposes, or do you think that maybe he thinks that being on the ground there helps get security briefings done on one‑on‑one, and on also not only that, but it is a sign of support for Ukraine like the dozens of other countries who've done so by re-opening their Embassy.

Foreign Minister: Well, I certainly recognise the symbolism of re-opening the Embassy, and in relation to, you know, dialogue with Ukraine and dialogue with other partners about support for Ukraine, we remain the largest non-NATO contributor to Ukraine's fight, and ‑‑

Cannane: I'm not sure that that's true. If you look at the Kiel Institute figures, we're the fifth non-NATO ‑‑

Foreign Minister: Well, I'm not sure that's correct. But anyway, you and I can have a discussion offline about the detail, but it's certainly the advice to me is we remain the largest non-NATO contributor.

I also added to that recently in terms of humanitarian support and support for the energy fund, and what I'd say to Simon Birmingham, "If you are serious about support for Ukraine, I hope that you are disciplining Senator Antic for describing the President of Ukraine as 'that little fellow in the green shirt'".

So, we are acting responsibly, and we will continue to provide support as and when we are available, we remain in very close contact with the Ukrainians about what they need, and I spoke very recently to the Foreign Minister of Ukraine.

Cannane: Senator Birmingham in that interview also said he wanted the Coalition to go to the next election with a plan for long‑term strategic commitment to guarantee ongoing support to Ukraine, and I know you met with the Foreign Minister of Latvia recently, Latvia being one of at least 20 countries that have signed up to the G7 Joint Declaration Support through tenure agreements with Ukraine. Why hasn't Australia signed up to that agreement?

Foreign Minister: Well, as you said correctly in your – in that question, obviously this was a G7 initiative, which is being considered by a number of countries, primarily European countries, it's certainly one of the issues we will engage on including in our discussions with Ukraine, not only recently but in the future, how best we can continue to support them. We are there for the long‑term, and we are consistent since we came to Government in contributing both military and non-military assistance to Ukraine.

Cannane: Overnight we've seen a missile land in central Israel, which Houthi rebels fired from Yemen and have claimed responsibility for.

Foreign Minister: Yeah.

Cannane: And this comes after Hizballah launched rockets and drones from Lebanon in August, and also Iran has launched drone attacks against Israel in recent months. How concerned are you of a major regional conflict breaking out here?

Foreign Minister: Well, we've been concerned about that for a very long time. I mean one of the consequences of the horrific attack by Hamas on October 7th was not only the war in Gaza but also the risk of regional conflict, regional escalation, that is something very early on we engaged on, certainly, other countries have engaged very directly. I've spoken to many nations in the region, including Israel, but also the other nations in the region to urge there be no escalation.

Iran, as we said, you know, as we discussed earlier in the program, they are a destabilising force globally, they are a force for disruption and conflict. We see that in their proxies, including, as you said, this very, very concerning event we've seen overnight with the Houthi's fire firing ballistic missiles into Israel. The risk of that to Israel is obviously self-evident, and the risk of further regional escalation remains.

Cannane: Senator Wong, we'll have to leave it there, but thanks very much for your time this morning.

Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you, Steve.

Cannane: Likewise. Australia's Foreign Minister, Penny Wong joining us there.