Interview with Holly Stearns, Sky News AM Agenda

Holly Stearnes, Host: Joining me now is the Foreign Affairs Minister, Penny Wong. Minister, thank you for your time today. I appreciate it. Has your government failed Australia on this?

Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good to be with you. Look, this is an unprovoked and unjustified decision. Obviously, we'll continue in discussions with the United States in the hours, days and weeks ahead. I would make the point, Holly, that I have said for some time this was a harder hill to climb than the last time. And you only need to look at the President's adviser, Peter Navarro, who has said that the lesson from the last Trump Administration was that exemptions don't work. Their position has hardened against exemptions, and they have made clear at this stage that there would be no exemptions. So, this is a global tariff. We think it is unprovoked and unjustified. It's not good for the American economy and it's not the way to treat a friend and partner.

Stearnes: Now, recently you said you were hopeful. What changed?

Foreign Minister: I also said, as you might recall, the hill that we're climbing this time is much harder. And what has changed is the position of the Trump Administration, which on this occasion has said exemptions that they gave last time to a number of countries didn't work. The lesson from that decision for them is that they won't impose or they don't want to give any exemptions this time. As Peter Navarro has said, 'we don't want exemptions, exemptions didn't work last time'. And that's why you see a global tariff on all trading partners in relation to steel and aluminium.

But, Holly, can I just explain why tariffs are not the way to go? The first is, guess who will pay the price of this? It's actually American consumers. It's Americans in the products they buy. It's Americans in the effect on the stock market and on the American economy. So, these tariffs will harm the ordinary American and the American economy. But the second point I'd make is we're a good ally and partner, a trusted friend, and we, like many other friends and partners and allies of the United States, do not believe that this is the way that friends and allies should be treated.

Stearnes: Well, you're saying there on your first point that the US Government has said it won't budge now. So, why are you saying there's still hope

Foreign Minister: Well, I'm saying we'll continue to do the work. That's what the Government should always do. We'll continue the work and we will continue to do what we have always done, which is advocate for Australian workers, Australian jobs. The point I've made publicly and privately is that we are a very small exporter of steel and aluminium to the United States. It's only 0.18 per cent of Australian exports to the United States. So, it's a very small proportion of our trade. But the principle is that this is not going to economically benefit the US, in fact it's going to cause economic concerns, economic issues for American consumers who will pay higher prices and for American markets.

Stearnes: Do you support reciprocal tariffs?

Foreign Minister: Look, for the same reason that I've said that the tariffs will not be good for American consumers, we're not supportive of putting tariffs on American goods in retaliation. And the reason is we're not going to add to Australians' cost of living. We're not going to make Australians pay more for goods and services. We know there's a cost of living crisis for Australians. We know that we have to continue to address it. And we are, and it's great to see wages moving, inflation coming down and that rate cut. But we are not going to add to cost of living pressures in this country by putting in place tariffs which will simply drive up prices.

Stearnes: Minister, respectfully, why didn't the Prime Minister travel there? Does that make Australia look weak?

Foreign Minister: Well, I just would make the point that the Prime Minister has had two calls with the President. I would make the point that we have been engaging at every level, including the two Prime Minister to President calls. So, we have been engaging. I think the issue here is the position that the Administration has taken where they have taken a very hard line against exemptions. And you don't have to trust me on that, Holly. It's what they've said out of their own mouths. They don't want exemptions. They believe the lesson of the last round is that exemptions don't work.

Stearnes: You mentioned there earlier that this is not how a friend treats someone. So, is this a blow to the alliance then?

Foreign Minister: Oh look, the alliance has stood firm, stood strong over many decades and America remains our principal strategic partner. We are adult and mature, and we understand the importance of the alliance. The point we're making is that these tariffs are not good for Americans and they're not consistent with the friendship and frankly, beneficial economic relationship that our two countries have had.

Stearnes: Well, frankly, it's not good for Australia either or the industry here. I understand what you're saying, that it's not good for the United States, but it's not good for Australia. And that's just the facts. How do you feel dealing with this very different Trump Administration?

Foreign Minister: Look, it obviously is an Administration that has come into power with a very different view about how America should be in the world. And I said right at the start that President Trump has made it clear he will do things differently. I said that President Trump envisages a very different role for America in the world, and we are seeing that every day. We see that in the way in which the US has dealt with Ukraine. We see that in the way in which the US is dealing with its allies and partners. We see that in the way in which the US is dealing with its economic policy. This is a different America in the world. And we as a government will remain calm, mature, disciplined, and we will continue to engage with the Americans, advocate for Australian jobs, advocate for Australian interests, as we always do.

Stearnes: Minister, we'll get to Ukraine in just a moment. I just wanted to ask you quickly, before we move on, when did you learn this news about the trade?

Foreign Minister: Well, obviously, we've been in a lot of discussions over many, many weeks, and I think it's been pretty clear from some of what I've said publicly that I recognise, and the Government recognised, that it would be much more challenging this time. I would make the point, Holly, that on the last occasion it took -

Stearnes: So, when did you learn about it?

Foreign Minister: Well, the news broke this morning, and I obviously had a conversation with the United States Ambassador, Mr Rudd. But I would make the point I have made clear for some time: this is a much harder hill to climb for the reasons I've outlined. Mr Navarro has said the lesson from the last time is exemptions didn't work. I'd also want to make this point, Holly, that on the last occasion, it took the Turnbull Government almost a year to work through steel and aluminium tariffs with the first Trump Administration. So, of course, we will continue to work through this with them. We will continue to put forward our propositions, which in part go to the fact that we are a very good economic partner for the United States. The trade relationship is to the United States' benefit in terms of value, and certainly in terms of these components we are a very small proportion of the United States imports in these sectors.

Stearnes: Minister, I mean, you've been very diplomatic on this particular issue, but over the last couple of weeks or months even we've had a few concerns. You've got Kevin Rudd chosen to criticise President Trump previously, then also we've had a bit of a war of words on Malcolm Turnbull. Do you think this has jeopardised the deal getting across the line here?

Foreign Minister: I think Kevin has done an outstanding job, I can say that from my observation of the extent of his engagement and the level of his engagement. But I would say, obviously, it's a very different Administration. It's a very different America in the world.

Now, I would make also this point, we've seen Mr Dutton out there being very, very quick to criticise. Mr Dutton and his lieutenants are very quick to get into a political attack. They're very slow to stand up for Australian jobs and Australian workers. And what I'd say is this is a time where the country should work together. Should work together to stand up for our jobs, Australian jobs and Australian workers and Australian industries. And maybe just for once, put the political attack aside in the national interest.

Stearnes: Okay, let's get to Ukraine now. Are you intimidated by Russia's recent warning?

Foreign Minister: No.

Stearnes: Should you be?

Foreign Minister: Well, Australia doesn't blink in the face of that sort of bullying. What we have said, two things, first is Russia's invasion of Ukraine is illegal and immoral and importantly, a breach of the UN Charter by a permanent member of the Security Council. That's why we all have to stand against it. Secondly, what the Prime Minister has said, that we are open to considering any request for assistance, including peacekeeping. That's what he said.

Stearnes: Minister, some are saying that by considering boots on the ground, it might be a bit reckless at this stage. And there are more regional needs that we need to focus on. What's your response to that?

Foreign Minister: Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves. We've said we'd consider a request and I'm very happy to come on your or any other show if such a request is made, to explain whatever decision would be made. But we'd said we'd consider a request. And let's remember why we are standing up for Ukraine. We stand up for Ukraine because we don't believe the world can stand silent and passive in the face of a larger power invading another country and taking its territory and killing its people. It's a very simple proposition.

Stearnes: Minister, we've got about 20 seconds or so left and I really do appreciate you coming on to answer these questions today on Sky News. Will Russia agree to a ceasefire deal? Are you hopeful of that?

Foreign Minister: Well, Russia should agree to a ceasefire deal. Russia should cease its war. We've made that clear. And the pressure is on Russia now that the Ukrainians have made their position very clear that they are willing to consider a 30-day ceasefire.

Stearnes: Foreign Affairs Minister Penny Wong. Thank you for your time today. Appreciate it.

Foreign Minister: Good to speak with you, Holly. Thank you.