Interview with ABC Adelaide Breakfast with Sonya Feldhoff and Jules Schiller

Sonya Feldhoff, Host: This is a breakfast that is the biggest breakfast not only in South Australia. So, let's get this right, this is all over the country and for the 23rd year running, it is hosted by Senator Penny Wong, who joins us now. Senator, thank you for your time.

Penny Wong, Foreign Minister: Good morning to everybody. Happy, well, it's not quite IWD because we hold this breakfast the closest day to, but happy almost International Women's Day.

Feldhoff: Now, this is your 23rd year as host, but I want to take a moment because this breakfast wouldn't be without the person who founded it and led it for the first, what, 10 or 11 years? Senator Rosemary Crowley.

Foreign Minister: Yes that's right, who passed away just recently. And look, on International Women's Day and at this breakfast, you've heard me talk about the importance of remembering and honouring women who've gone before and who've paved the way, as well as thinking about what more we have to do. And it's really important for us to honour Rose today. I mean, she was the first woman the Labor Party sent to Canberra, elected in the early 80s, which seems remarkable that it took that long. First woman to be a Minister from South Australia in the Federal Parliament. And one of the things she did, as you said Sonya, was establish this breakfast. And I remember I was actually on her breakfast committee before I went into Parliament, helping organise it. It was smaller then and it's grown year on year and it was something Rosemary was so committed to. So, it's really wonderful to be able to honour her today.

Feldhoff: And we talk about those important things that she did. But having sat next to her on several occasions, she had a fiery, fire in her belly. She had a sense of humour. She was an amazingly fun woman to be around.

Foreign Minister: She really was. She had a great sense of humour, very witty, sometimes quite bawdy. I remember.

Jules Schiller, Host: Bawdy.

Foreign Minister: Bawdy, yes.

Feldhoff: She was.

Foreign Minister: I'd say Rose, Rose, I can't say that.

Feldhoff: She was an amazing woman. So, we remember her today and I think that she'll be in the minds of many people today.

Foreign Minister: Absolutely.

Schiller: Let's get to your portfolio, Penny.

Foreign Minister: Can't we just talk about this? This is much more, this is much more relaxed.

Schiller: Well, I'll hit you with a quote because I think this is a good quote to sum up what's happened. Vladimir Lenin said 'there are decades where nothing happens and there are weeks when decades happen.' Does that sum up what's happened this week with some momentous kind of tectonic plate shifting with alliances and, you know, support for Ukraine and not support for Ukraine? How are you handling everything?

Foreign Minister: Okay, well, first, I don't think the Australian Foreign Minister should be quoting Lenin. So, I'm just going to leave that with you. But you're right, I mean, I think tectonic is probably the, you know, the phrase that people have been using which is, you know, this is a very different time. I've said for some time President Trump and the Trump administration have said they were going to do things differently. So, we ought not be surprised about that. And what's important is that we remain cool headed and disciplined, work together and navigate what is a very changing world, in Australia's national interests. And that's certainly how I will approach it and how the Prime Minister is approaching it.

Feldhoff: Is your job as Foreign Minister more difficult today than it was a week ago? Given what we've seen in the last week.

Foreign Minister: I probably measure it in slightly longer terms. Before the election I did think a lot about what sort of world we were in and I talked about the fact that how many changes, how much there was moving in the international landscape and certainly since the election I think we've continued to see that. And it's very important that one, to remain cool headed and calm and to work as we are to try and maximise Australia's relationships, to elevate our presence in the region and to work with others across the world in support of those international rules which matter to us. I talk about relationships, rules and region, and that's really defined what we have done this term and what I've done as your Foreign Minister.

Schiller: We had Chinese warships obviously doing live fire exercises and that was big news. You know, Virgin flight kind of reported it and that was all. Have you been speaking to your Chinese counterparts about how that unfolded and maybe you'd like to see it happen differently next time?

Foreign Minister: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I spoke to the Prime Minister when that happened and I was actually in South Africa for the G20 and had a bilateral meeting with Foreign Minister Wang Yi scheduled and we agreed that I would speak very directly and clearly to the Chinese about our views. Obviously, we also operate in international waters. Australia does, and we support the international laws which enable countries to operate in those waters, which are international waters. So, not Australia's territorial waters. But when we do so, and if we engage in these sorts of exercises, we do give much more notice. You do issue what's called a notice to airmen – still men, I'm afraid, Sonya – which is to ensure that all aircraft and vessels in the area are aware. But we also give earlier notice. And what I said very clearly to the Foreign Minister of China is that our expectation is that notice such as Australia would give in the South China Sea or elsewhere where we operate would be what we would expect.

Feldhoff: You're listening to 891 ABC Radio Adelaide. Sonya and Jules here with you for breakfast, broadcasting here from the Convention Centre which will host the International Women's Day Breakfast, the biggest one in the country.

Foreign Minister: I'm just going to tell your listeners that this is, we are sitting at a desk, being very good and talking to each other as these massive number of women and some men walk in and lots of school kids, I can see, who got up early. So, it's pretty busy.

Feldhoff: This is the thing, isn't it? We've got a whole heap of school kids here and when we take it, look at the message for girls and women. But people generally, you know, I think a lot of us would have felt unsettled with the talk of nuclear weapons from Emmanuel Macron yesterday. As you talk to these women and men who will be in the room today, do you have a sense of optimism? Because I think there would be a lot of people at the moment for whom that would be far away.

Foreign Minister: Well, first, just on the number of young women, that's one of the things I have really sought to do as host, and that is to increase the number of schools that attend. And we've been really pleased at how that's been taken up, because I think part of what matters today is that mix across generations and that you get women who've done a lot and been around a lot and have seen a lot engaging with girls, school kids who are at the beginning of their adult life and having that discussion. Optimism, I suppose. I think that we have agency so we have the capacity to do what we can do and we should do that. So, we should be talking about de-escalation, we should be talking about engagement and dialogue, because we know that to avert, to keep peace, you need both deterrence, but you also need reassurance and you need to engage as an international player in a way that provides both deterrence and reassurance. That's how you ensure stability and peace. So, I suppose I think of it much more as what can we do? And we should focus on maximising what we can do rather than wringing our hands about what others are doing.

Schiller: I know you have to go, Penny, but just message to women listening. I mean, I was thinking of younger women, especially because they're facing – you've got Andrew Tate, they've got revenge porn, you know, all this, all these threats to, kind of things to overcome for them. Like, I guess women of your generation were. So, what's your message to women on this day?

Foreign Minister: Well, can I message both men and women? First I would say what I said about marriage equality. There's nothing to fear from equality. Equality is about all of us having an opportunity and the world is a better place where we all have an opportunity. And what I'd say to young women is what I always say, is that women can do anything.

Feldhoff: On that note, we'll make sure you get to where you need to be to make sure you can do anything. Senator Penny Wong, who will be hosting this breakfast for the 23rd time consecutively. Thank you so much.

Foreign Minister: Thank you. And can I just plug for the ABC? Know that they didn't ask me to do this. Thank you so much for your support for this over so many years. It's part of the, you know, what Adelaide does and we really appreciate the ABC support.

Schiller: Thank you, Penny.