Interview with Hamish MacDonald - ABC RN Breakfast

HAMISH MACDONALD: The operation to extract the five remaining group members endedovernight. Hundreds of volunteers have supported the rescue mission. Australiaalso sent a team of 19 people to Thailand, including Australian Federal Policepersonnel. The Foreign Minister Julie Bishop joins us now from Parliament Housein Canberra. Good morning to you.

JULIE BISHOP: Good morning.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Just a few days ago, some diving experts were obviously warning thisoperation was too dangerous even to be undertaken. It is now accomplished.Given Australia's role in this, how relieved are you that it's over?

JULIE BISHOP: I'm absolutely delighted that this extraordinary ordeal is over, thatthe 12 boys and coach Chantawong are safe. They're being assessed but Iunderstand that they are going to be fine, and it is an extraordinaryinternational effort, brilliantly led by the Thai authorities. You're right,there were times when people didn't think they'd be able to achieve this, andwhen the former Thai Navy SEAL died in the rescue attempts a few days ago, Ithink everyone's spirits were very low. Now there are jubilant scenes comingfrom Chiang Rai and understandably the rescue teams are physically andemotionally drained, but very excited that they've been able to achieve what isa world first, a most remarkable ordeal and rescue.

HAMISH MACDONALD: We are told that the role of Australian diver and doctor Richard Harriswas central to all of this, but we're also told he's a very shy man, hasdeclined all requests to speak with any of the Australian media. Can youconfirm what his role has been? Was he in fact the last one to leave?

JULIE BISHOP: That's what I understand. He has been an integral part of the rescueattempt. He was specifically identified by the British diving team as an expertwhose skills would be required and he was asked for at the highest levelswithin the Thai government, and fortunately was able to go to Chiang Rai and bepart of the rescue. He is internationally renowned for his expertise in caverescues. He's very well known to us and the Department of Foreign Affairs andTrade because he's part of the Australian Medical Assistance Team that goesoverseas under our aid program to support developing countries. Indeed, hespent some time in Vanuatu working at the Port Vila Hospital under theAustralian aid program. He's very well known to us and his expertise isrecognised around the world. His dive partner, Craig Challen, is a vet fromPerth and he was also part of the rescue team. It ended up being 20 Australianpersonnel all up, including the six Federal Police divers, the Navy clearancediver, and members of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade crisis rescueteam.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Have you spoken to Dr Harris throughout any of this?

JULIE BISHOP: No I have not, he's been on site. I've been maintaining contact with ourAmbassador Paul Robilliard and our team in the embassy in Bangkok, and sendingon messages of love and support and cheering them on every step of the way.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Would you like to see some kind of formal recognition for Richard Harrisfollowing this?

JULIE BISHOP: Well clearly, this has been an extraordinary team effort. We've beenpart of the Thai-led international effort. Dr Harris' role has been quiteextraordinary and I'm hoping that we'll be in a position to thank all of ourrescue team when they return to Australia.

HAMISH MACDONALD: In a formal way?

JULIE BISHOP: Indeed.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Okay. Let's move on to another topic, politics in theUK is unfolding apace. A spate of resignations in protest over the PrimeMinister's Brexit plan. You've lost a jogging partner in Boris Johnson. Are yousorry to see him go?

JULIE BISHOP: I will miss Boris, he was a great counterpart. He was a veryenthusiastic supporter of the Australia-UK relationship and we developed aclose personal rapport. I spent quite some time with him during April, theCommonwealth Heads of Government meeting in London, where we discussed regionaland global challenges and I was delighted that he was showing a great interestin British involvement and engagement in the Pacific. Indeed, he announced theopening of three more UK missions in the Pacific during our visit there inApril. I'm looking forward to working with Jeremy Hunt, the new ForeignSecretary who's been announced by Prime Minister May. I hope to speak with himand meet with him as soon as possible and continue on the deepening of therelationship between Australia and UK and talk through some of thesechallenges, particularly Brexit and then the relationship that Australia willhave with the UK in terms of increased trade and investment post-Brexit.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Boris Johnson will return to the backbench, he'll be apowerful conservative voice there with very different views to the PrimeMinister of the day, maybe nursing some leadership ambitions. I suppose that'ssomething you've observed at close quarters here in Australia. Any advice forBoris Johnson on how to handle those particular dynamics?

JULIE BISHOP: Idon't think Boris needs advice from anyone. He will continue to make asignificant contribution to public life in Britain. He made an enormouscontribution as the Lord Mayor of London and I'm sure he'll continue on inpublic life making a contribution.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Maybe as prime minister one day?

JULIE BISHOP: He'sa remarkable person, I'm sure he's ambitious, but he has a different point ofview regarding Brexit and I think that's been obvious for some time now and hefeels that it would not be appropriate for him to continue on in the role ofForeign Secretary while he has such a different view on such a fundamentalforeign policy issue as Brexit.

HAMISH MACDONALD: You mentioned that Australia does have a stake here becauseobviously there's this intention to build a stronger trade arrangement betweenAustralia and the UK post-Brexit. If Britain is moving now towards a softerBrexit model, does that mean that there is less scope for the future tradingarrangement between Australia and the UK if they're observing this so calledcommon rule book?

JULIE BISHOP:Itdepends how this plays out and a soft Brexit could just mean that it's going totake longer for Britain to exit and then be in a position to enter into freetrade agreements with other countries, notably Australia, but the details areyet to be worked out. Theresa May is expecting a white paper on the UK-EUstrategy later this week and that will obviously guide the negotiating mandatethat she will then take to the European Union negotiations.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Sure. But the [inaudible] planned that this whole crisis hasunfolded around involves the terminology, a common rule book, that would beobserved by the UK on the trade of goods which would mean that they'd be signedup to a lot of the current regulatory framework around importing and exportinggoods from Europe which would limit what Australia could do if there were anattempt to make a stronger trading arrangement in the future.

JULIE BISHOP: It'svery early days. The negotiating mandate that the Prime Minister has is takento the discussions with the EU. The EU may or may not agree with this, so it'svery early days and I don't want to speculate on how Brexit will eventuallyturn out. Suffice to say that Australia is very keen to deepen our tradingrelationship with the United Kingdom, as we are with the EU and as you'd beaware we have commenced formal negotiations with the European Union for a freetrade agreement between Australia and the EU and I'm hoping that the HighCommissioner, Federica Mogherini - she's the High Representative from the EU,the equivalent of the Foreign Minister - will be in Australia shortly and wewill discuss the ongoing progress of our free trade agreement negotiations withthe EU. So we, likewise, once Britain has exited the EU, want to conclude afree trade agreement with the UK, but it's too early to say what Brexit willlook like.

HAMISH MACDONALD: All of this is happening at a very interesting moment inEurope. Donald Trump is in Brussels today for the NATO meeting. He's got apacked agenda on this trip. He'll be meeting with Theresa May as well and thenVladimir Putin. But interestingly he says: I have NATO, I have the UK which isin turmoil and I have Putin. Frankly Putin may be the easiest of them all. Howtroubling is it for you to hear that from our close ally?

JULIE BISHOP: Itdepends what he's looking for from President Putin. He will have difficultconversations with NATO, but that's been flagged for some time because he'scalling upon the individual members of NATO to pay more for their own defence,to increase their defence budget, so that's been a consistent theme of theTrump administration.

HAMISH MACDONALD: But meeting with Putin is easier than that? How is thatpossible?

JULIE BISHOP: Wellit depends what you're asking for from President Putin. If you're not askingfor anything from him…

HAMISH MACDONALD: Well, should he be asking for something from Putin?

JULIE BISHOP: Well,we certainly have issues with Russia and we certainly have issues withPresident Putin. I believe that Russia should be called to account and takestate responsibility for the downing of MH17. We're coming up to the fourthanniversary of the shooting down of Malaysian Airlines MH17, where 298 peoplewere killed, including 38 Australians. I believe that Russia should be held toaccount for the presence of Russian manufactured nerve agent Novichok in theUnited Kingdom, which has now seen the death of a British citizen.

HAMISH MACDONALD: So, all of that sounds quite difficult. Are you concerned that DonaldTrump is not going to be pushing Vladimir Putin on those matters?

JULIE BISHOP: Well, these are matters that I would raise if I were meeting withPresident Putin. The United States has its own foreign policy, its ownpriorities. We would urge the United States to not reward Russia for its badbehaviour and certainly not invite Russia back into the G8. I think Russia hasmany questions to answer, including its involvement with Syria, backing theAssad regime and its use of chemical weapons. There are a number of mattersthat I would certainly raise with President Putin.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Fair to say that you're troubled by Donald Trump's approach to thismeeting with Vladimir Putin?

JULIE BISHOP: We don't know yet what the President intends to raise with PresidentPutin. We know what he's going to talk about with the NATO partners becausethat's been flagged for some time, but I'm not aware of the specific issuesthat President Trump wishes to raise with President Putin and no doubt thatwill all be made public very soon.

HAMISH MACDONALD: And very briefly, is there, in your view, any substantive risk that theUS will abandon NATO? Trump, of course, described it as obsolete during hiscampaign.

JULIE BISHOP: I would certainly hope not. I see it as integral to peace and stabilityon the European continent. NATO has played a significant role in maintainingpeace and stability. It is an upholder and promoter and defender of theinternational rules-based order, which is very much in Australia's nationalinterest, and so I would hope that the United States would see the benefit ofNATO. Of course things can be changed and yes, NATO members can bear more ofthe defence burden that the United States has been shouldering for so long, andI think NATO members are responding to that.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Julie Bishop, thank you.

JULIE BISHOP: My pleasure.