Interview - Sky News

Subjects: Musharraf resignation, Georgia, Pacific Islands Forum, Fijian elections

COMPERE: Well, President Musharraf has resigned, but what does his departure mean for the war on terror. He claims he put Pakistan back on the map, but was it for all the wrong reasons. Is Pakistan a more fractured country now than when he took power?

Coming up on the program, the Foreign Minister Stephen Smith will join us to discuss the president's legacy. But first, let's get the latest news headlines from Terry Willesee in the SKY News centre.

[Unrelated items - news broadcast]

Well, let's go straight now to the Foreign Minister, Stephen Smith, who joins me in Sydney. Minister, thank you for your time.

For all of President Musharraf's faults, he certainly was a close ally of the West. What's the risk Pakistan may become less cooperative in combating terrorism?

SMITH: Well, the Australian Government believes that what's important now is a period of political stability, so far as Pakistan is concerned.

Earlier this year, of course, we saw the terrible assassination of Mrs Bhutto, and we were very pleased that following that assassination, Pakistan stuck to its course and saw a democratic election through.

So what we now need to see is political stability to enable the political leaders, the Government and the Parliament in Pakistan to address the very serious problems that Pakistan has, and that, of course, includes the problems of extremism and terrorism. And I've indicated to my Pakistani counterpart, Foreign Minister Qureshi that Australia stands ready, willing and able to render assistance in that very big challenge for Pakistan.

COMPERE: Well what indications, if any, has the west been given from members of the ruling Coalition government is - in Islamabad about its approach to tackling terrorism?

SMITH: Well, I've made the point to Pakistan, and I've said it both privately and publicly, that when we look, for example, at the problem we have in Afghanistan, we now also need to look at the problem that we have in Pakistan.

It's very much the case that the border area, the Pakistan-Afghanistan border area, the so-called FATA area, the federally administered territories, is where the current hot bed of international terrorism is.

We've got 1100 troops in Afghanistan, so there are very serious adverse consequences for those troops if that border area is not brought under control.

So it's not just a bilateral issue between Afghanistan and Pakistan; it's got regional and international community implications, which is why the international community is looking to Pakistan to work with the international community to address that very serious challenge.

So we certainly hope that now that President Musharraf has resigned that we will see stability, and the capacity of the Pakistani leadership, to address this very significant problem of terrorism and extremism in that border area.

COMPERE: But has that Coalition government given any undertakings that it will be willing to cooperate with the West in the same sort of sense that President Musharraf did?

SMITH: Certainly, in my discussions with the Pakistani Foreign Minister and with Pakistani officials who I spoke with when I was recently in Singapore for ASEAN-related meetings, they were only too well aware of the concern of the international community, and indicate a willingness to work with Australia, but also with the international community.

But the proof will be in the pudding. I mean, no-one is under-estimating the very serious challenges that Pakistan has. But equally, both the regional and the international community is saying to Pakistan, including Australia, you know, we are willing to help. There are a range of things, for example, that Australia can render assistance with. Whether it's helping the Pakistan institutions, the institutions that further democracy, whether it's supporting or helping those, or whether it's giving technical advice so far as combating insurgency or terrorism is concerned.

But what we now need, given the passing of President Musharraf, I think, is a period of political stability where these very difficult issues can be addressed by Pakistan itself, in conjunction with the regional and international community.

COMPERE: What are the risks though? Are you worried that Islamic extremists could become a lot more powerful in the country?

SMITH: We're very concerned about circumstances in Pakistan. The Australian Government has made that clear throughout the course of this year. And when we first came to office at the end of last year, one of the issues we had to confront, or deal with, was Afghanistan. We very quickly came to appreciate that in the recent period, the problem of Afghanistan you could these days describe as the problem of Afghanistan and Pakistan, given the very serious situation in that border area.

So we're under no illusions about the seriousness, and we're under no illusions about the size of the challenge. Which is why we now want to see in Pakistan political stability to enable Pakistan, the Government, the Parliament to address these issues. But all of the indications that I've given to my Pakistani counterpart and to Pakistani officials has been that Australia and Pakistan need to increase the dialogue they have with each other generally, but Australia stands ready, willing and able to assist in these areas.

Of course, we've ruled out military intervention or military assistance, but there are a range of areas where we can be of assistance, whether it's development assistance, or whether it's providing technical advice. But no-one's under any illusions about the size of the challenge or the seriousness of the task.

COMPERE: Well, depending on who's writing the account, Musharraf is either seen as a visionary or a dictator full of failings. What's your take on his legacy?

SMITH: Well, I'm very happy to leave that to the historians. I'm much more concerned about the present and the future. So I'm much more concerned now about not looking at Musharraf's legacy one way or another, but trying to focus on the future.

And there are two reasons for that. As I've indicated, one, we see the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area as really at the heart of the modern day fight against international extremism and terrorism, and, secondly, we've got nearly 1100 troops in Oruzgan Province in Afghanistan. That abuts the border area. And one of the things which causes very grave difficulties and danger for our troops in Oruzgan Province in Afghanistan are the crossings of the extremists in and around that border area.

So Pakistan, bringing that border area under control, is very, very important to the safety and security of our troops in Afghanistan.

COMPERE: Well, moving on to Georgia, what's the latest information you have about the situation on the ground? There are mixed reports coming out of the country. Do you - have you got any information that Russian troops are leaving as promised?

SMITH: The advice I have is that, slowly but surely, it seems as though the Russians are removing themselves from Georgia proper.

But I make the same call that I made yesterday, which is, Australia very strongly expects that Russia will abide by the terms and conditions of the ceasefire that it signed up for which essentially and effectively means removing their troops to the positions that their troops occupied before the recent conflict began on 6 or 7 August.

The Russians said yesterday that they were complying with that. It's quite clear that they're dragging their feet. And it's very important that they comply and abide with the conditions of the ceasefire to enable the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe to bring in international monitors, to bring in peacekeepers in Georgia to stabilise that area to enable dialogue to occur about the future of the relationship between Georgia and Russia, but also the future so far as the South Ossetia province is concerned.

COMPERE: Well as you say, Russia is certainly dragging its feet. What sort of message do you think that's sending to the international community?

SMITH: It’s sending a very adverse message. We were very pleased when Georgia and Russia, in the run up to the weekend and over the weekend signed up for the ceasefire agreement. That was always the first step required - cessation of hostilities, a ceasefire, to bring matters back to an even keel, to return things to where they were before hostilities commenced. And it has sent a very bad signal in the Australian Government's view. Australia supports the territorial sovereignty and integrity of Georgia. We don't recognise claims by South Ossetia for separatism or recognition as a separate nation state.

We respect Georgia's sovereignty over South Ossetia, and we expect that Russia and Georgia will sit down and have a discussion and a dialogue about a long-term solution to that issue.

The problem has been there for some considerable time. It's flared in recent days and weeks and those hostilities have been very, very regrettable; and Australia has indicated $1 million worth of humanitarian assistance. But the Russian action in the first place, disproportionate response, but then dragging its feet in abiding by a ceasefire that it had itself agreed to, sends in the Australian Government’s view, a very bad signal to the international community.

COMPERE: Well, closer to home, the Prime Minister is heading to Niue for the Pacific Islands Forum meeting. How disappointing is it that Fiji has announced they'll be boycotting that meeting?

SMITH: Well, it's very disappointing. Commodore Bainimarama at the last meeting of the Pacific Island Leaders Forum in Tonga, in October last year, gave a faithful and unconditional undertaking, that he would have an election in Fiji before the end of March of next year.

And he was compelled, as a matter of honour, to turn up to this Forum and explain himself to the leaders, and it is very disappointing that he won't turn up and effectively take his medicine.

I was a member of the Foreign Ministers' Ministerial Contact Group which went to Fiji. And our report to the leaders is that if the political will is there, there's nothing standing in the way of the holding of that election. So it's very disappointing. And I think the leaders in Niue, including our own Prime Minister, will understandably be very gravely disappointed at the refusal of Commodore Bainimarama to turn up and to indicate to the leaders whether he's proposing to meet the faithful and unconditional undertaking he gave to the leaders at their last meeting in Tonga last year.

COMPERE: So now what can Australia do to put pressure on Fiji to hold those elections?

SMITH: Well we continue to have sanctions on Fiji, so far as travel is concerned. And that is a cause of great consternation to the interim government in Fiji. We will continue to argue very strongly in the Pacific Island Forum, and to Fiji, that they need to return to democracy. How the leaders of the Pacific respond in Niue will be a matter for the Leaders Forum over the next couple of days.

But I continue to be of the view that Australia needs to argue strongly, both regionally in the Pacific and in the international community, that Fiji must return to democracy, must return to respecting human rights and the rule of law and democratic processes in Fiji, and they will have the assistance of the Pacific Island community in conducting that election if the political will is there for them to go down that road.

Whether the leaders want the ministerial contact group to go back to Fiji, or to apply other measures, time will tell. But I'm fully expecting that the leaders in Niue in the next couple of days will be very, very disappointed at the failure of Commodore Bainimarama to do the right thing and turn up and front the leaders eye to eye to explain himself.

COMPERE: Foreign Minister Stephen Smith thank you for joining us on AM Agenda today.

SMITH: Thanks very much.

[Ends]

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